Jane Fonda

Remember the era of Vietnam. Wasn't popular to call anything a war. It was free love, drugs and burning draft cards.
How patriotic. I won't serve send the poor boys. I'll go to Canada.
Always a conflict when not popular.
Anyone still found any article of war on Iraq?
I didn't think so.
It's spred out in the articles of war on terrorism.
How funny. Yet were at war today. But not in Korea or Vietnam.
Oh well.
But that is war and not a conflict and why?
Congress did not issue a draft of war against Afghanistan or Iraq. Yet that is where the war is.
Hmm. Strange.
Yet Korea and Vietnam were not wars?
Should our scholars redefine the words war and conflicts, and congressional actions regarding, whether it is a war or conflict?

[imported_mega]

I dont know lpd, I mean its not important to me because I understand that it was a war, im not looking for a literary defintion, I just used the word conflict because its a term thats used alot when refered to vietnam.

I find the actions of people today as appaling as what Jane Fonda did, I even believe its worse in many cases.

trea·son ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trzn)
n.
Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.
A betrayal of trust or confidence.

If what she did was treason, then we have a many of bendict arnolds on this board.

Not taking away anything from the war or anything from the ones who served, I dont beleive anyone has said that however, I find it funny that many who supported John Kerry are those same people who called him and his kind (Vietnam Vets) all those names. Those in turn are the same ones who routinley bash our government today. Mock our president and create a joke of the office.
To me it seems that its only good to be an American when your idea is the one being promoted. All through Clintons presidency I was proud to be from the USA although I did not agree with many of his actions both political and non political.

My reply was not necessarily to you mega.
I just find it replusive, people die, in what is called a conflict.
And today we have wars all over and not a single war to one country.
Yet Korea and Vietnam are wars that we lost many Americans in yet their conflicts.
To me, any time a arm is fired in defense of a country, our allies or the US it's a war.
But that is up to Congress to decide?
All i know they can do right is pass their ownselves a raise, when most of the rest of the nation's working people don't get one?
Sound like Congress?
And i don't have to teach a history lesson on Korea or Vietnam.
To me if what is taught in Highschool or College don't collaborate what i stated.
Then our history classes are sorely missing, a lot of what they use to teach.

And as NOLA said i didn't whole heartedly agree with Clinton and his stance.
But one thing i will say. He lied but in the end he admitted it. Johnson and others are gone. Their lies died with them.
Clinton may not of been famous. But i respect his presidency for at least one thing. He lied but he said, i made a mistake, i am human.
That i can accept. For those who can't say that and still say their right. I have no respect for.

[imported_kydawg95]

Correction Biggin Desert Storm was a declared war and so was Korea also Noble Eagle! Since Vietnam, Panama was the only conflict!And if you wanna Know this is how My papaw served in WW2 at the battle of St.Lo,Battle of the Bulge and the Adarian Mt. range and spent the last three months nine days of WW2 in a Nazi Hospital, My mom's oldest bro fought in Nam so did my Dad's bro and my mom's 2nd cousin and my dad!My uncle Archie won the Congressional medal of Honor in the 72 day siege at Khay San! my mom's middle bro fought in Panama.And my 1st cousin and my mom's baby bro fought in Desert Storm! The same first cuz of mine was the one that I posted for everyone to pray for that got blew up about three months ago over there! I was also was in the Navy. So both side's of my family have as they say been there done that and wore out the shirt! And as far as Jane Fonda is concerned to me there is nothing on earth that anyone could do to get her back for what she done!

[PVVikeFan]

During the Vietnam war there were many who protested and many who refused to serve. The protesting was the American right NOLA spoke of. Yes, they had the right to do that. But they had that right because thousands upon thousands had fought and given their lives to give them that freedon. I can forgive them for that. The "men" who fled the country fo avoid the draft at least went to Canada, not to North Vietnam. Again, they had the freedon to do that because others had paid a price for that freedom. I don't agree with what they did but I finally did forgive them.

But what Hanoi Jane did was not at all the same. Any way you look at it she gave aid to the enemy. She went way beyond any right she had as an American. For what she did I will never understand why she was allowed back in this country. The same goes for all the bleeding heart liberals who went ti Iraq to be "human shields". When the fighting started they tucked tail and ran again. I would put Michael Moore, Martin Sheen, Mike Ferrell and many others in the same class as Hanoi Jane. These people all betrayed this country, I for one will never forgive them for that.

Their right? Their freedon? Too many people don't realize that freedon is not free. Sometines it has a terrible price.

[Unchained]

My opinion of Ali? Great boxer...on the personal side: I'm not shedding any tears over the shape he is in..guess i'm just a hard ass.

[imported_elp6n]

For the vets & families of vets this post may rehash some of the ugliness of Hanoi Jane - feel free to skip this if you wish.

For the others - these are just some of the reasons why Jane Fonda is so despised by many.

On November 21, 1970 she told a University of Michigan audience of some two thousand students, "If you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would some day become communist." At Duke University in North Carolina she repeated what she had said in Michigan, adding "I, a socialist, think that we should strive toward a socialist society, all the way to communism. "
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Jane Fonda also helped in the organization of a production group called the F.T.A. (F*** The Army). This group helped to set up coffee houses near military bases where they would perform anti-war derogatory-type sketches for the visiting soldiers. The coffee-house sketches were intended to counterpoint the U.S.O. shows, such as Bob Hope and other U.S.O. sponsored performers whose performances increased morale and gave positive support to American soldiers. Some of the F.T.A. coffee house employees would mingle with the soldiers to help them to "relax and unwind", while encouraging the soldiers to desert. Some soldiers alleged that they were promised jobs and money by the F.T.A. if they deserted.
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In 1972 Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden and others traveled to North Vietnam to give their support to the North Vietnamese's Government. When she returned to the United States, she advised the news media that all of the American Prisoners of War were being well treated and were not being tortured.

As the American POWs returned home in 1973, they spoke out about the inhumane treatment and torture they had suffered as prisoners of war. Their stories directly contradicted Jane Fonda's earlier statements of 1972. Some of the American POWs such as Senator John McCain, a former Presidential candidate, stated that he was tortured by his guards for refusing to meet with Jane Fonda and her group. Jane Fonda, in her response to these new allegations, referred to the returning POWs as being "hypocrites and liars."
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The military defeat of North Vietnam after the Tet Offensive of 1968 became a political victory for North Vietnam because of anti-war demonstrations and the sensationalism of the news media. The North Vietnamese interpreted the U.S. reaction to these events as the weakening of America's resolve to win the war. The North Vietnamese believed that victory could be theirs, if they stayed their course.

From 1969 until the end of the war, over 20,000 American soldiers lost their lives in a war that the United States did not have the resolve to win. The sensationalism by the American news media and the anti-war protests following the 1968 Tet Offensive gave hope to Communist North Vietnam, strengthening their belief that their will to succeed was greater than ours. Instead of seeking a successful resolution at the Paris Peace Conference following the disastrous defeat of the 1968 Tet Offensive, they employed delay tactics as another tool to inflame U.S. politics. This delaying tactic spurned further anti-war demonstrations. Those who sensationalized their reporting of the war and those who supported anti-war demonstrations are guilty of giving our enemy hope. Because of their actions, they must share partial responsibility for those 20,000 + Americans deaths.

We won the war on the battlefield but lost it back home on the college campuses and in the city streets.

Americans must realize that there are agents* operating in this Country attempting to undermine our Country and it's leadership through our democratic principles in an effort to achieve a foreign country's goal. A prime example of such a person during the Vietnam War was Jane Fonda, an admitted Socialist, who blatantly supported North Vietnam. * Agent - Any person who works to obtain the goals of another nation either for money or for their own political beliefs.

A valuable lesson was taught by North Vietnam to other nations on how the United States may be defeated by fighting a two front war - the battlefield and the American home front. We must be aware of this vulnerability.

In 1975, after the fall of the South Vietnam Government, Jane Fonda returned to Hanoi with her newborn son Troy for a celebration in her honor for the work she had done for North Vietnam. During the celebration, her son was christened after a Viet Cong hero, Nguyen Van Troi. Troi had attempted to assassinate Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara while on his visit to South Vietnam in 1963. The South Vietnam Government executed Troi for this attempted assassination.

[7_32]

LPD, I think you were overreacting a bit there big guy....
Biggin was simply saying why Mega called it the Vietnam 'Conflict'...Nobody disagrees w/ you...
We all know it was a war in every way but congressionally declared....

Guys if i did i apologize. But that is one war/conflict whatever that hits home.
Really close to home.
When you lose people you grew up with and all of a sudden they come home and are gone?
I had one cousin who had to leave this area. He left Vietnam and couple days was here, hard to deal with from the jungle fighting to home?
He had to leave the area and stayed gone for a long time. This area at the time and esp. summer reminded him to much of Nam he couldn't deal with it.
The other cousin spent a lot of time working to forget, even trying to forgive, for all he seen.
I have studied this war/conflict, cause it affected my family in such a way.
So yeah i guess i may get a little hot when i think back, and can remember Hanoi Jane sitting there with the North Vietmanese, supporting them against her own country. And the men dying for the draft imposed on them, on and yeah a draft imposed by congress. However, a limited war/conflict, because it wasn't popular to announce a war and actually let our troops win.
Even though they never lost a battle on the battle field, including the Tet Offensive.
Many feel they were not allowed to win the war/conflict, because of the limits imposed, and the way things were goign here at home.
Go fight in a jungle for a year or two, lose a few friends, to come home a decorated marine, to be spit on by some young girl who calls you a baby killer.
Guess it just kind of gets under my skin.
My cousins would of went either way. One did volunteer the other was drafted.
So yeah thinking back to seeing how and what this war/conflict did to them. To see them disrespect by one from our own country.
Yeah it kind of riles me up and gets under my skin. And i may say a little more than i should.